We talk with a fellow podcaster and
Transcript
Jesse: Hey guys, welcome back! This is Jesse and Rich here, with the 51视频
Richard: It鈥檚 going great, I鈥檓 excited.
Jesse: Yeah definitely excited here, we鈥檙e starting to see a lot of the good reviews coming and comments so thank you for subscribing. We really appreciate the comments so we can steer where we鈥檙e going with future podcasts and, of course, really appreciate the reviews, particularly of the
Mike: Unlike on Amazon, you can ask for a
Jesse: Absolutely! We can say whatever we want on with this podcast. Awesome! Also, the other request we have for you if I can put another shameless plug is on the bottom of the page ecwid.com\podcast there鈥檚 a button where you can tell us about your store. So please, it鈥檚 not a quiz, but just want to hear your story about why you would be a good podcast guest, your story etc. Please do that, we want to have more merchants on.
Richard: Yeah, it always good to hear stories from the merchants here, what their concerns are, or what their successes are, their story, their journey, their origin what made them get started. We always love that and, you know, what got them to be successful.
Jesse: And we want to help you guys be more successful so we can give you advice during that podcast. Speaking of successful podcasts, Rich we got a pretty big one on today.
Richard: Yeah that鈥檚 the reason for my excitement not only are we podcasters but we brought on a fellow podcaster Mike Jackness, of EcomCrew, and Mike, welcome!
Mike: Thanks guys, it鈥檚 good to be here!
Richard: Glad you鈥檙e able to make it! You actually here in San Diego located right up the road from us here, so thanks for making the trip down. So that we know more about you (we listen to the show all the time) why don鈥檛 you give us a little bit of origin story of how you got started on the internet, and what got you in
Mike: Oh man. I鈥檝e been doing this for a while so this could take a few minutes (laughing.) Start on the internet as a business person was affiliate marketing back in 2004 which really dates me, and did that for quite a while. And I was we鈥檙e talking about this before, I kinda
Richard: And the margin — the most important part鈥�
Mike: The margin is definitely better. You know, at first, it seems so鈥� like the shining lore, right? But a lot of times the shiny object isn鈥檛 as shiny as it might be because, yeah, there is more cash flow demands now, and more R&D development, there鈥檚 another costs, that you realize why sometimes the Millman has to make some money too.
Jesse: So you鈥檙e doing this to make money then, that鈥檚 a good thing (laughing.)
Mike: Well, in theory, I look at our P&L sometimes and I wonder鈥� it is definitely a cash flow intensive business, so that the P&L was always looking good but there鈥檚 less cash in the bank, it seems like it because as we continue to grow, it needs more cash. So you constantly under that, in this environment vs. affiliate marketing where I found to be like “the magic money that fell of the sky” syndrome which doesn鈥檛 have much in this.
Jesse: Very true.
Richard: I wish it were so easy.
Jesse: So, tell us a bit more about the EcomCrew and your podcast.
Mike: Yeah, so we started about 3 years ago, as I said, I was an affiliate marketer for a long time. I have known for a long time, like, where there鈥檚 traffic, there鈥檚 money. So, you know, I did not really think of the profitability angle of that when we first started, I just thought that what I was doing was cool. And I realized that we were doing stuff that other people weren鈥檛 doing. Really early on the process, I joined a form called
Jesse: Awesome. So you got a little bit of a head start on us. So for that reason, that鈥檚 why we brought you on: we want to
Mike: No problem. It鈥檚 not trademarked.
Jesse: Well, “51视频
Mike: Yeah, OK, so for that particular question鈥� You鈥檒l hear people like gurus talking on podcasts constantly and there are all these ideas floating around. Well, people often don鈥檛 think about when they鈥檙e like: “I need to be doing this, and I need to do this, and do this,” that鈥檚 what everyone always is saying. They don鈥檛 realize that people like us, that we鈥檙e in a
My first piece of advice would be to pick one thing, maybe two things and go with that and not worry about trying to do everything but do one or two things and do it really well rather than try to do all these buzzword things, because again, there鈥檚 19 of us at our company doing all the things that I talk about and share with people. And if you鈥檙e just getting started — it鈥檚 just you. Or maybe you hired one VA and there鈥檚 only so much you can get done.
Jesse: Sure,
Mike: Yeah, I think list building is definitely a really important component of
So we use Clavijo for our email platform. But if you鈥檙e just getting started, I would recommend using something like MailChimp or something that鈥檚 cheaper. Clavijo has a lot of functionality that鈥檚 really good for more advanced email marketing. At some point, you鈥檙e going to want to do that. But when you鈥檙e just getting started, you鈥檙e gonna want to probably do it on the cheap.
The things that we鈥檝e been doing to get people on our email list have been incredibly effective. It鈥檚 typically what I call like “super low friction,
So trying to get them to buy something from you, you know, they go from “I鈥檝e never heard from you” to “Oh, that鈥檚 something I might want to buy”, to “Do I trust the store? Are they actually going to show me the thing or are they going to steal my credit card information?” All these different things that go through their head and trying to complete all that within four minutes is very difficult to do. So if you come at them with a
Jesse: So, you鈥檙e definitely trying to get their email — let鈥檚 break it down — you need that email. So then you can start to send them emails from whatever system you have, you can start to retarget. What鈥檚 a good tip you have for newbies to get those first sets of emails?
Mike: So, we鈥檒l talk more about this as we as we get into it. Email is actually one component of what I call the Trifecta for us so we鈥檙e actually like when I wake up in the morning it鈥檚 not just about email anymore. It鈥檚 getting the email address, getting them on our Facebook Messenger list, and getting them pixeled, so I can then market to them in one of or all three of those ways moving forward.
But we鈥檒l talk about the email component here first real quick. And so the “the
They also can refer their friends and things like that. So we want to let them do some of the work for us. But once we have their email, we what I call like “epic engagement.” It doesn鈥檛 just stop. We don鈥檛 just take their email address and then send him an email for 10 percent off on our store. That doesn鈥檛 really work, it鈥檚 got to be at least the 80/20 rule of 80 percent value, 20 percent salesy stuff. So most of the communication we send will be tips and tricks the types of products that relate to our brand.
So one of the brands we have is in the coloring space geared towards adults, for instance. Don鈥檛 ask how — that鈥檚 another whole story. But you know there might be tips and tricks on how to blend and shape with markers, or how to sharpen your colored pencils so they don鈥檛 break easily. And we鈥檒l send a lot of this type of content to them and work on engaging and training them to open our emails rather than just trying to shown a sale down their throats and trying to get that sale in the short term, because the great thing about completing that effect I talked about and having their email, having them on Facebook Messenger, by having them pixeled is you now have a virtually unlimited amount of time to eventually get that sale. There鈥檚 not that pressure of “OK, I got their attention for this four minutes I got to get them to buy something.” I can communicate with them over a long period of time.
Richard: Sure. So do you figure with the contests and giveaways that is actually the fastest way for you to collect the email in the first place because a lot of the 51视频 community, some of these people are just getting started. They don鈥檛 have a list at all. One of the reasons why it鈥檚 great we鈥檙e covering list building. So you have this contest or giveaway I鈥檓 assuming you鈥檙e using some form of additional piece of software, because some additional entries or you share, you get more entries, you comment in different places, you get more entries, so we鈥檒l talk about that in a minute of what potential is a good contest plugin or whatever it is you might use. And then, secondarily though, where are they putting these mostly in the social space like, on Facebook, on Instagram, where they are sharing? Feel free to whichever order you want to go.
Mike: So the way that we set that up, it鈥檚 a little bit different for each of our brands depending on where we are in a lifecycle, but let me just talk in generalities.
First of all, there鈥檚 a ton of platforms. I think whatever one you pick, they all kind of do the same basic thing. The ones that we use are gleam.io and UpViral. There鈥檚 another one that鈥檚 really popular called a Viral Sweep or Viral Launch, I think Viral Sweep. But the basic idea is that that program will help you with the virility partly because we鈥檙e talking about it. So the way that we do it is we run a Facebook ad to鈥� A Facebook Messenger ad, first of all, let鈥檚 get that other component real quick. Let鈥檚 go through the process one through whatever it is.
So the first up is a Facebook ad that drives people to a Facebook Messenger popup, so it鈥檒l say “Send message” and the ad will basically say “We鈥檙e giving away one widget every day for the month of October” or whatever month it might be. And you can do is click “Send a message” to get entered so they click the message, it pops up and says “Thank you very much for your interest in our contest. If you want to enter, click here. If you change your mind, say ‘Never mind’. But clicking, they say ‘I鈥檓 interested in that point.’ Boom! They are on my Facebook Messenger list. That鈥檚 quick because they鈥檝e interacted with me. I give them the URL of where to go to sign up, when they click the URL to sign up for the contest, that landing page has the Facebook pixel on it, so I鈥檝e now got them pixeled, on that landing page. It has a spot for them to put in their email address, and when they do that I now have their email address so now I鈥檝e completed the Trifecta.
Now when they鈥檝e given me their email address, the thank you page basically will say: ‘Hey, thank you very much for entering the contest, you鈥檝e been entered, you have one entry.’ And then, at that point is that communication happens through that widget, through all these platforms do the same thing, where you know ‘Click here to share this on Facebook’, so they鈥檒l be sharing it on their own Facebook feed at that point, or ‘Click here to tweet this or and earn additional entries’ .
There鈥檚 usually also a way for them to share it with their friends by copying a link and then giving it to them that way. And then one of the things that we do after that is follow up with them via email and remind them that they can earn additional entries, because we really want to take advantage of them, wanting to be an ambassador for us to be able to earn more entries. The last thing I鈥檒l say real quick is that we pick a winner every day, we find that those
Jesse: I have a couple questions, Mike. One, I want to start back at the beginning with Facebook ads. But second, I鈥檓 excited about you mentioned announcing a winner. So do you announce their names? Can you show a picture of them all, like, how do you seem like a great idea, that makes you look legit? How do you notice them?
Mike: So, we have an email template, this one I think that one of our RBAs does in the Philippines, we have a staff of 13 people over there now. And so, they鈥檙e just sending out a template. So, first of all the software allows you to let it pick you a winner. So, it is legitimately random, you just pick one winner. It gives you their email address, so we reach out to them, because they give your email address right, so you have their email.
You say: ‘Congratulations, you鈥檝e won!’ And it says: ‘You basically need to respond within three days and let us know, otherwise, we鈥檙e going to pick another winner, because you need to need their address right.’ We need to ship ownership of the product. Yes, we need their address, but what we do is a part of that communication once they do respond, we asked them for their permission to use their name on social media. We鈥檒l use their first name, last initial and the city they鈥檙e from all over disclose. But we still even asked their permission to be able to do that, because we think it鈥檚 the right thing to do.
Jesse: Sure.
Mike: And then, once a week, we make a little post with all the winners” names, like little infographic kind of thing. And we make it a square image that has the winners and that we can use it both on Facebook and on Instagram, because it鈥檚 a square milepost and that鈥檚 how we handle that. And the only thing that will do once we ship the product to them, we also then follow up and ask them, if they鈥檒l send us a picture of them with it, which is really powerful, but, unfortunately, we only get, like, maybe, one or two of those a month. But even that helps, because now you started to build a library of
Jesse: So people believe you when you do these giveaways, they鈥檝e seen the pictures. They鈥檝e seen you do this before. So, starting back at the beginning, now for people that have not a lot of people, that are looking to build this, maybe, have not launched Facebook ads, you know. And I know, for people that are regulars at doing Facebook ads it鈥檚 pretty easy to, just you know, to choose a segment, you know etc, etc. For somebody, that hasn鈥檛 lost a Facebook ad, what would be your advice on it, it could be kind of daunting for somebody that has not done this before? How would you tell them to go about, you know, choosing their niche and targeting for their Facebook?
Mike: So, like, you know, one year or more of knowledge boiled down to, let鈥檚 say, three minutes, trying to get you and overview. There are a few things I think that are really important. The first thing is that not every niche is going to work on Facebook. Let me give you some examples. I鈥檝e mentioned already, we sold coloring books geared towards adults. Well, there is an interest in Facebook for coloring books for adults. Believe it or not, I would never think that, one of the things that we sell, we have four brands, the other brand is baby products. There鈥檚 an interest on Facebook of expecting mothers or parents with kids that are 0 to 2, very easy target.
Jesse: I feel like that鈥檚 about 25 percent of Facebook is baby pictures and expecting mothers.
Mike: I think that鈥檚 right. And I鈥檓 one of our other brands isn鈥檛 the tactical space, so very easy to target people who like hunting, and fishing, and camping, prepping, survivalism these are all interest groups on Facebook. What doesn鈥檛 work is one of our other brands which we sell hot and cold gel packs. You throw them in a microwave, they get high from a freezer they get cold. You can鈥檛 target somebody on Facebook that has pain, like, that type of targeting doesn鈥檛 work, so it kind of illustrates that there鈥檚 something that is going to work, because Facebook is an
There are some things, I鈥檒l give you another example, I鈥檓 really connecting
Jesse: So that鈥檚 the first can target people that have keys in their pocket, because now you鈥檙e targeting everybody.
Mike: But everyone has the keys in the pocket at the same time. So, it鈥檚 like, you know, you can just at that point, you can just open up, like, I just want to target people in the United States and it works like magic, because that鈥檚 a problem that.. Such a high percentage of people that are on Facebook have that it just works without any real interest group. But that鈥檚 a very small segment of people, that are listening to us, that are in
Jesse: Yeah I鈥檓 jealous. I鈥檇 like to have a product that everybody could potentially purchase. So that鈥檚, yeah, hard for targeting. But I see the market potential.
Mike: There鈥檚 a reason why he is a
But, what I would advise is try to make it the frequency of the giveaway throughout the month to be as frequent as possible, hopefully every day if you can, and then make it so the value of what you鈥檙e giving away every day is interesting enough to the person that鈥檚 looking at this ad. So that鈥檚 number two component.
The next component is to try to use a video ad. Video ads outperform still images at least two to one if not three to one. Unfortunately, they鈥檙e harder to create there. But what we use, is we use a software almost exclusively now for these types of ads. One of the things that鈥檚 become difficult for us to do as we鈥檝e been scaling towards eight figures is repeating things and scaling interest and being able to do things efficiently. So, we use a software called Animoto. It鈥檚 affiliated with them in any way, I think it鈥檚 like 30 dollars a month or something relatively cheap. And what you can do is stitch together still images and turn them into a video. So, you just don鈥檛 even know how to have any production video, production experience at all. You upload 30 still photos and put them in the order that makes sense and it makes really pretty transitions, and you can also add text to each slide, if you want, or pick slides one text on you can also even upload over a voiceover track, if you want it as well which is something, that we use a thing called Voice Bunny, a
Jesse: And so even with that type of video then we鈥檒l call it a bit of a hack of a live video. Right. You鈥檙e still beating still images two to one?
Mike: At least two to one.
Jesse: Wow. We鈥檙e not really talking that much money — thirty bucks and maybe a couple of hours of time?
Mike: Yeah, We budget we鈥檝e been kind of doing this now. It鈥檚 actually one of the things that we really try to nail down for us in the third and forth quarter of this year, we鈥檝e been budgeting one day of our time to produce one of these. That鈥檚 going to be one of our staff, because we have everything we can to get everybody鈥檚 stuff planned out month by month. And so we鈥檙e budgeting a full day for someone to be able to write the scripts. We don鈥檛 just upload, we鈥檝e gotten complicated with. So that鈥檚 public interest and a half a day of it. If you鈥檙e just trying to meet a minimum bar. But we鈥檙e also uploading some stock photo, stuff that will or stock videos stuff you will get off the internet, like, off of a stock photo or one of these types of companies, that you can download clips, and then we鈥檒l take our own video clips and, like with Gimbal, and film the product and stitch all that together with Animoto, so we don鈥檛 have to be able to produce long clips of really high production value stuff, we can do it in three to four second increments with, like, anybody can do with a Gimbel and an iPhone. And, so, we鈥檒l pan over, we鈥檒l throw the product on the table and just pan around it, and then take that clip and add that in the Animoto with some still images, and then add in the voiceover and we can produce something that would probably be worth five thousand dollars to have a video production company to do. And we were producing it for a couple hundred bucks. And if you wanted to just produce a lower quality video just to kind of get started, I think you could do it in a half a day with under 100 dollars.
Jesse: Ok. Wow. Yeah, so, that鈥檚 a good tip for everybody out there that videos are going to outperform stills probably two to one and it doesn鈥檛 have to be that hard. You don鈥檛 have to have a fancy camera, and lighting, and all that. Certainly, it helps, but Animoto will cool down the show notes for everybody out there.
Richard: So you are saying you do the Facebook ad and we鈥檒l just be able to cover everything on here. We won鈥檛 go too deep of a dive on that right now but, so. You want to specifically drive them to message you or message them for more information, whatever that is. Is there a quick and easy way for them to do that? Is that just setting inside Facebook too?
Mike: All this stuff adds a level of complexity and, maybe, if you鈥檙e already overwhelmed, you can skip this part and just have it go directly to the landing page to start with to get. What鈥檚 really good to do is to get a minimal viable type product up there and build some confidence. If you see that this is working really well for
Jesse: That Jason was just to scare people, that it鈥檚 not really that hard.
Mike: It鈥檚 not that hard. I promise, this is actually probably one of the easier things. And so you鈥檒l build out the growth tool visually, so it鈥檚 very easy to see exactly what messages people are going to get. Again all visual. And then the hard part is actually easier, because they make it easy for you: when you鈥檙e done with that you hit the set up tab and it gives you all of the code, you just copy the clipboard and then you paste that code into Facebook, when you鈥檙e building the ad. There鈥檚 a look a little spot there to add your own Jason. So it takes all the programming part of it out and all the high tech part of that out and makes it relatively simple. And, so, it isn鈥檛 all that complicated in the end. So, basically, you build out your messenger flow, and the messenger flow is again, when they click ‘Send message’, I want to pop up and ask them: ‘Are you, sure, basically that you want to enter this giveaway?’ and it for me it鈥檚 an excuse to get them to say ‘yes’, because as soon as they interact with that messenger, but they get added to my list automatically. So, now they鈥檙e going, like my Facebook Messenger subscriber count the same as an email subscriber count will increase by 1 when they click that button, and we have given them an option, you know, that says: ‘Yes, I鈥檓 interested, I want to enter the giveaway’ or ‘I鈥檝e just simply changed my mind.’ When they get to that point and if they hit I change my mind. We just unsubscribe them. That happens, like, 1 percent of the time very few people click that. Again it鈥檚 just an excuse to get them to interact with you. Now they鈥檙e on your messenger list and you can interact with them in much the same way, although there are some restrictions that you have with email. So now you have an opportunity to be able to send them a Facebook message which gets, like, 90% open rates. It鈥檚 triple or quadruple that of email.
Richard: The early days of
Mike: Like the early days of email and the thing is that this isn鈥檛 going away. The thing that really helped us have this ‘aha’ moment, I think is the fact that we spent two months a year in China or in Asia, Southeast Asia and Hong Kong, China, Taiwan area and they all use WeChat for everything, like, not just a message each other, like in the old AOL like A.I.M. days. But it鈥檚 like the equivalent of Apple Pay over there. They鈥檙e paying everybody with Apple Pay or with pay WeChat Pay, they pay the taxi driver, they pay their friends, they pay them for their food with WeChat. They are there Uber over there, it鈥檚 called DD. And it鈥檚 just becoming, it鈥檚 already ubiquitous. But, like the functionality of it over there is becoming more and more sophisticated, and you can really take a look into the future by spending some time over there, because what鈥檚 happening here is that, you know, we鈥檙e three to five years behind, really. But Facebook Messenger is already installed like the mass of Americans” phones, so it鈥檚 not going to get supplanted with something else, it鈥檚 too late. They鈥檝e already come. They鈥檝e already won that.
Jesse: And already we鈥檙e thought is that Facebook鈥檚 not going to say, you know, “I鈥檓 not sure about this Messenger and chat thing.” They鈥檙e sticking with this.
Mike: This is why they already made it a separate app. When we all had to go through installing another app on our phone, it was really frustrating. They鈥檙e doubling down. They saw what was happening in Asia. They realized they needed a separate app to be able to handle the credit card information and other integrations with an API, to be able to work with things, like, Uber and Lyft. You know, again, over there it鈥檚 called DD, but you鈥檙e gonna be, like, opening up Facebook Messenger to do almost everything, you know, in three to five years from now and being having someone as a subscriber on your Messenger list is going to be the equivalent of having their email address, or better, in the future and it鈥檚 already, it鈥檚 already amazing. It鈥檚 really hard to miss a Facebook message that pops up on your home screen. It makes a noise, I mean, it鈥檚 really hard to miss it. And, so, even right now the effectiveness of it is incredible and, I think it鈥檚 just going to get more and more ubiquitous and effective, but it鈥檚 going to get more and more expensive, like just like anything else just like three to five years ago Facebook ads, like this Holy Grail because it was new and it was it was really cheap. Google AdWords — there was a time when I was paying pennies per click for online poker affiliate marketing ads, which now would be, like, 20 or 30 dollars a click. You know, it鈥檚 crazy, like, how things change. We鈥檙e at that stage now with messenger, which is why I鈥檝e been talking so much about, I think it鈥檚 important to be one of the early adopters for these types of technologies, because it鈥檚 never going to be cheaper.
Jesse: So you鈥檙e seeing a bit of the gold rush, if you will in Messenger really, and getting people on your messenger list?
Mike: Yeah, yeah.
Richard: What are some of the rules you were describing there? There are some parameters that Facebook sets that there are?
Mike: Yeah. And it鈥檚 going to give a
But what you can do, like, one of the things that we did for our recent coloring the launch with one of the brands, we launch from gel pens was one of our new products, so you can do as a broadcast to say: “Hey, I鈥檓 just curious, do you like coloring with gel pens?” Asking them a question and you can have a button there Yes or No. And if they clicked yes, then we say: “Oh well, by the way, we just released a new set of gel pens today. It鈥檚 available to buy here on Amazon.” This is one of the ways that we get a new number one bestseller everything that we launch as we have 50,000+ people already on our messenger list and then clicked Yes. They鈥檙e interested in that type of product and then we show them the product, and that sequence even though it鈥檚 a little subtle difference. It鈥檚 allowed. And if they say No, we just say: “Thank you very much.” You know you don鈥檛 like pencils or pens. No big deal.
Richard: You don鈥檛 say: “It鈥檚 because you鈥檝e never tried these鈥�” (laughing)
Mike: No, we don鈥檛 do that. Although, that would be pretty funny. You must sell cars at some point. But don鈥檛 we all. Yeah, that鈥檚 how we handle that. So, that鈥檚 the Broadcast one and then the other one you can do that, is promotional, is you鈥檙e allowed to send the Broadcast out to people that have interacted with you within the last 24 hours.
So, as someone, now — that鈥檚 what鈥檚 really cool about sending out that type of question, even if they do say “no”, it hits the reset button, but they have interacted with you again and you can then send them other messages, anything you want. If they just interacted with you within 24 hours, you can send them anything you want in that time frame. And then, the last one that you can do is a Promotional Broadcast. You get a one, get out of
Richard: Yeah, I mean, it鈥檚 definitely a catch 22 for them, because, as they know, they get their money from marketers, but yet they can鈥檛 wreck the customer experience. And marketers are known for wrecking the customer experience for the most part. I know, we鈥檙e all marketers too. But, believe me, I get what they鈥檙e protecting us from them from. Quick question, when you keep mentioning the actual phrase “interact with them, they need to interact with you”, so they first land on this. Would you like more click, more for a message and they have to interact, does interact specifically mean they have to say “yes”, or if they say “no” is that an interaction too, are they still on your list, but you just happen to unsubscribe them? because you said you unsubscribe and they said “no” in the very beginning.
Mike: Yeah, yeah. So, in the very beginning, when we asked them: “Are you interested in this contest or giveaway,” and they have the option to say “yes” or “no.” If they say “no”, there we don鈥檛 contact them anymore, because they鈥檙e not, they don鈥檛 really want to be on our Messenger at that point. And you want to give them every opportunity to not get on messenger, because it takes a very very small portion of people complaining to, like, block your Facebook Messenger account, it actually happens to us. I鈥檓 still, like, blown away. It was just a little slap on the wrist as a one week ban or whatever we had 13 people complained out of 50,000. It鈥檚 like those numbers look so small, like, people that marked us as spam and are like: “Yeah, like, your account we flagged you for spam. You can鈥檛 send messages for one week.” I鈥檓 still blown away, because it鈥檚 such a small number. So, like again, we do everything we can and every time we communicate with people, every time we send a message, we ask them like: “Do you want us to stop messaging you on Facebook Messenger?” That鈥檚 one of the things we also say that they say stop it they can type in the words “stop.” And when they do that we just unsubscribe them, because we don鈥檛 want people on Facebook Messenger that are going to be annoyed by you and complain, because if they do, they鈥檒l close your account. So, you鈥檝e got to be very careful.
Jesse: Make sense. It鈥檚 probably a good reason why you reference the Trifecta before. So, if you don鈥檛 have somebody鈥檚 email, you have somebody鈥檚 messenger and you have them remarketing. So, I guess if you get blocked on messenger, you still have two avenues to reach out to them.
Mike: Yeah. I mean, we certainly don鈥檛 want to get our messenger list block, we鈥檝e spent a lot of money building that 50,000 people on it, so effective. But yes, I mean, it鈥檚 always good, no matter what you鈥檙e doing. I mean, there was a time when we only focused on email, because, you know, that鈥檚 all we really knew. But now we have the pixel which we can use to run Facebook ads to them. We didn鈥檛 even get into that. But basically, by pixeling them I know that they were on my website and I can run a very targeted Facebook ad to them. So, yeah, having all these different avenues is really important, but the way that I look at it actually now someone, I did a talk a couple of years ago about email marketing, talk about, like, how many people open our email and a guy came to me afterward and said: “Well, what about the people who don鈥檛 open up your email?” And I was like “Oh man.” And that鈥檚 when I really got into these other avenues of marketing, because no matter how good you already know email marking the highest plateau target can get to a 30 percent open rate. And that鈥檚, like, crushing it. So, what about those other 70 percent of people, who are also on Facebook. You can advertise them on Facebook ads or, maybe, can get the most of your Facebook messages. So, you have other opportunities the market to them. And then, again, dictate and drive. Turn that dial however you want to be able to send traffic where you want at that exact moment in time, whether you鈥檙e launching a new product or you鈥檙e selling on your own store, however, you want to do it, you control that asset and it鈥檚 valuable.
Jesse: Absolutely. So, I like the idea of the Trifecta particularly with Messenger as being a part of that鈥檚 not something we鈥檝e covered in a previous podcast. So, let鈥檚 talk money about, you know, like, so, you guys have made it, you鈥檝e got your system a little fine tuned. So, somebody starting now is going to be launching their first Facebook ads. Maybe they鈥檙e not able to afford 30 dollars a day of a giveaway of a product. Maybe they鈥檙e doing a 50 dollar per week product. What type of investment, because you have to buy Facebook ads too to sell a product. There鈥檚 paying for Facebook ads and obviously some time of course that goes with that, but OK, not using your numbers, using somebody more of a newbie number. What type of investment do you think people are in for, you know, per contact meaning the trifecta, the pixel, the email, and the Facebook Messenger? What鈥檚, you know, the average number which obviously there鈥檚 no such thing as an average number? But, you know, what can you give us one?
Mike: Absolutely. I mean, we鈥檙e looking to spend 50 cents per lead, because you鈥檙e optimizing for leads at this point or less. So, our lead optimization, lead pixels on our thank you page after they鈥檝e given us their email. So, if they鈥檝e been counted as a lead, they鈥檝e completed the Trifecta. Like, if they just complete one or two of those parts, they don鈥檛 count as a lead. So, we鈥檙e optimizing for lead conversions. So, that means that they鈥檝e added to their Facebook Messenger list. We鈥檝e got them to pixeled and we got the email address, boom, we count them as a leader and we鈥檙e looking to pay less than 50 cents per lead, as our max, so, we鈥檙e willing to pay. We actually know that we can pay a lot more than that, because we鈥檝e been doing this for a couple of years and the math works, for sure. We actually are able to get leads for under 30 cents for the majority of the time. But again, every brand鈥檚 a little bit different, we do this for 3 different brands, so we鈥檙e going to do very different types of marketing or messaging to get there. But we are able to keep it under that 50 cent threshold.
Now, what I would say is when you鈥檙e first getting started I would look to be at a dollar or less to give yourself some room, if you can get to a dollar, you can get the 50 cents. I promise you, because, if you鈥檙e just getting started and you鈥檙e paying a dollar a lead, no matter what you鈥檙e doing, how good you are you鈥檙e going to be able to improve upon that, you can run a better ad, create a better landing page. You know, do a better contest, do something different that鈥檚 going to help, even just small amounts, you know, with your conversion rate over time and, if you can improve your conversion rate by 50 percent over time, it will cut your costs down by 50 percent and, you know, you鈥檒l go from a dollar down to 50 cents or whatever, so you can definitely do that, I promise you, I鈥檝e been doing this for a long time. The first landing pages we did, the first lead offers that we did, we were paying three or four dollars per lead.
Jesse: I thought that was way you were going to say by the way I was thinking this might be a three or four dollar lead, so 50 cents is really encouraging.
Mike: Again it鈥檚 “a
Jesse: Let鈥檚 dive into that a little bit more. So you鈥檙e targeting, you鈥檙e going to Facebook and targeting people that, you know, they鈥檙e going to a baby shower?
Mike: Now target expecting moms, so no, the mom might not be the one arranging the baby shower typically night, but she鈥檒l see the ad to be like: “Oh, this would be called having my baby shower.” The game. So we have, like, five games that we just print them out and you can鈥� And we had a group of our graphic designers on our team, like, designed to look really nice and there it鈥檚 just downloadable content, so they give us their email address and we know that they鈥檙e most likely an expecting mom. So, we have an opportunity to market to them over a long period of time about our products.
Jesse: And I assume that鈥� The giveaway is great, but I assume that that email also includes maybe some pictures of the products you have, maybe a coupon, some other other interesting content.
Mike: We actually don鈥檛 do that in the beginning, like, I was saying we try to do the whole 80/20 rule ,so we can try to just deliver them all this value first. It鈥檚 called
Richard: When you鈥檙e doing these are you sending separate messages, with messenger than you are and your email, are you deciding is there a way you decide, which way you鈥檙e going to keep interacting with them?
Mike: So, it鈥檚 kind of on a graduated scale, so you can think of the default, like, well, email everything. Anything that we ever want to communicate in any possible way, that鈥檚 where email comes in.
Richard: No, because, only 30 percent of them are getting opened anyway.
Mike: It鈥檚 a combination of only 30 percent are being opened and we can get away with any frequency we want. Like there is no limitation to it, like we, Facebook Messenger has that limitation, right, so it鈥檚 kind of, like, the graduated scale there is, like, we will test things with email, we鈥檒l send any offer whatever it is, whether it鈥檚 additional value, or coupons or sales, that go through email. The next level up is, if it鈥檚, like, slightly more important to us, then we鈥檒l take advantage of the pixel and run an ad. The ad might be for that coupon, or sale, or giveaway that does better with that, and then the broadcast is typically safe for, like, the big kahuna thing, like we got a new product launch something really important to our organization or to that brand. And that almost saves the broadcast, where we鈥檙e not going to just send them a broadcast message and go through all that just for something that鈥檚 trivial that we can just send through email. So, hopefully, that kind of makes sense the level of importance is really the way that we think about it. So, the most important things, the things that happen with less frequency, which is going to be, like, again, branded products been launched, or it鈥檚 now Mother鈥檚 Day sale, or something that鈥檚 important to that brand and that world, then we鈥檒l take advantage of that.
Jesse: So, when you send the messenger, so you mentioned, like, a 90 percent open rate. That鈥檚 pretty amazing. So, you want to save that for. Don鈥檛 waste those.
Mike: Don鈥檛 waste those, yeah. It鈥檚 a 40 percent
Jesse: Yeah, I mean, I know what you mean, Facebook Messenger. I see them all the time. I get hundreds of emails a day. I don鈥檛 see most of those, but Facebook Messenger, yeah I may a little annoyed by it, but I looked at it you looked at it. So, that鈥檚 all you need. So, that鈥檚 awesome. Yeah. Now I鈥檓 thinking about my own personal Messenger plans. What kind of contest can I run to do Messenger marketing? So, when you get people on your messenger list or you, like, how many, how much or how long is the drip conversation from, when you start off, like, do you know, like, three or four interactions that leave them alone? Or do you just go, until they stop answering?
Mike: Yeah. So, it really depends on how they came into the system, to begin with. So, if they鈥檝e come in through a contest or giveaway, we鈥檙e going to treat it differently, than if they came in through a free shipping offer, which may or may not have time to get to today. But we have a bunch of different types of top of funnel things that we鈥檙e sending people through. And, so, if they come in through a contest or giveaway, you know, there are some stereotypes about that you might be already worried about, like, these are going to people only looking for free stuff and they鈥檙e going to be a lower value, and that stuff is true. Like, there definitely is that component to that, so you want to be cognizant of that and not bother people, that came into your contest and give voice to your Messenger, that is also going to be more likely to mark you as spam. Right. So you鈥檝e got to be, like, a little bit more careful there, so these interactions don鈥檛 look a lot different than, if someone came through as a free shipping offer or someone that came through a lead magnet offered, so, like, another example of this. I mean, to give you an extreme example. We have a promotion that we do get 20 free downloads of coloring content. We literally deliver every drawing through a messenger to them. It鈥檚 20 messages over 20 different days, because we want to spread it out. That鈥檚 another thing is you kind of always want to spread it out, get people trained to open your email, be thinking about you and getting used to doing that. But there is a situation where we鈥檙e sending them a message, like for 20 different times, I mean, it鈥檚 a long messaging sequence versus the contest and giveaway. It鈥檚 typically just one extra
Jesse: Now there are 13 out of 50,000 is a pretty low bar.
Mike: It鈥檚 a very low bar. And again, that鈥檚 why we鈥檙e so paranoid now and we鈥檝e been: “OK, lately, I mean, it鈥檚 been fine.” The one thing that we did add as a part of that conversation with Facebook and we were talking to our rep was, like, they鈥檇 said: “You got to give them an option to opt out every single time you send them a message.” Now we have and it鈥檚 annoying, actually, because, like, we actually send them a second message, it鈥檚 like: “Here鈥檚 the message you really want,” and then it鈥檚 like: “If you want to stop receiving messages from us on Facebook, just type ‘stop’ and we put that in every message and how often.”
Jesse: How often do people opt out?
Mike: It鈥檚, like, 1 percent or, you know, typical is the same as an email, it鈥檚 very similar. You want to stop them from, you want them to opt out, just like you do what, you want them, not on email. Honestly, like, I mean, that鈥檚 another whole conversation. We scrub our email list all the time. We, mean, it鈥檚 painful, you don鈥檛, like, seeing your email list go down, they hit the go button to take your list down your list, but it helps get the open read up and keep your emails in the inbox, so that people that are engaging are going to be worth more to you, that, if you just want to have the ego saying: “I have a million people on my list,” because I could say that we鈥檝e had literally a million people signed up for our email list to this point, but our email list is still under 100,000 right now, because, like, we scrubbed, you know,
Richard: Yeah, but those to your point, those are more vanity numbers. Maybe when you were doing some J.V. offer with another affiliate guy. Yeah, and you had a million people on your list it was great, because, you know, they wanted to mail for you or your mail for them. But one of the things I was going to ask there also, when you鈥檙e talking about email messenger and picks for the Trifecta there — is there a way for you to look at your actual subscribers and see your subscribers other than just scrolling down the list of your messengers way to export them and looking to Excel file? I know that sounds like a random question, but.
Mike: I know you can export them, because I know you can switch between, like, ManyChat and other chat like, no other program and we鈥檝e never done that before, so I鈥檓 honestly not sure exactly.
Richard: So, more specifically, how would you know these 30 percent of the people are both on her email list and our Messenger?
Mike: We never
Jesse: And on the Messenger list, you have the name, or just OK, you have their name, you have the same last name. So, you could technically
Mike: But, I mean, like, there鈥檚 probably also, like a bunch of Michael Smiths, or something like that, so it鈥檚 hard to know exactly who they might be. But yeah, we鈥檝e never, I mean it鈥檚 curious, I mean, just never have done, I don鈥檛 know what we would do with that data. But a lot of times we get, you to get these data points, sometimes the data points send you down a rabbit hole that you don鈥檛 need to go down, and sometimes you get a data point that revolutionizes your business. I鈥檓 not really sure what we would do with that information yet.
Richard: I鈥檓 curious love the idea of knowing this whole idea and I鈥檓 sure you鈥檝e heard it many times that people call it different things. But if someone follows you on every platform and everywhere, you know, you have a superfan.
But, real quick, because we鈥檙e coming to the end of the hour, here and want to make sure people know more about you. You obviously have a lot of information. Please let them know about your podcast, where they should go to find out more about you, maybe even something you鈥檙e up to these days that someone might be interested in.
Mike: Yeah, there鈥檚 a lot going on. So, as far as the podcast goes you mentioned really, it鈥檚 called EcomCrew, we have 157 episodes as a recording this and doing about two a week, now we鈥檝e launched something called EcomPremium as well which is a subscription service that allows people to, for just a flat fee get all of our courses, we鈥檝e released all of our courses under one umbrella. And I think that鈥檚 unique and really cool about what we do. Are you also get a monthly webinar that you can come in and ask any questions you want, it鈥檚 interactive. My partner, Dave, and I run it once a month, just for our premium members, and the other thing that we do is the second web and are just for premium members that show you under the hood of our brands. It鈥檚 like being a fly on the wall in our office, so, like all this stuff I just talked about today, we鈥檙e showing the exact ads that we鈥檙e running and the sequences, and the spend that we鈥檝e done and the results only to those people that are on the subscription and we also show that all the products that we鈥檙e launching and any questions you have we also show that stuff, so it鈥檚 like a fully open book. Very unique in this space, because most people never talk about even the items they sell. They鈥檙e very guarded about it. But I just don鈥檛 care about that and more secure with myself at this point. So, that鈥檚 been pretty cool and we also have a free area called MyEcomCrew. That鈥檚 a bunch of free content. And it鈥檚 that whole same concept of value first. It鈥檚 like the ideas that people that are searching for stuff on Google, or they hear on our podcast, they come and they subscribe to the free area, and if they like what they see, hopefully, they鈥檒l eventually purchase and that鈥檚 the same concept, that we鈥檝e done with everything I just talked about in
Richard: So, do they Google those are those specifically the URLs, like mecomcrew.com or where?
Mike: You just going to ecomcrew.com and up on the top right there is, like, a free button to get started with.
Richard: Perfect, any social profiles you鈥檇 be comfortable with?
Mike: Yeah, what we buy the time we got to that point we learned our lesson, because we鈥檝e been doing online marketing for long enough to know everything should be EcomCrew consistently. Facebook, Instagram, everywhere. Yeah.
Jesse: Awesome, so I can personally vote you can listen to on the podcast for a while, so for people, listening, please check out the EcomCrew, please check out the 51视频 podcast. We really love those reviews. I know Mike knows all about it.
Mike: Listen, you know, you鈥檙e getting free information from the podcast. Go leave them a
Jesse: I love it. So, guys, really appreciate everybody listening, you know, make it happen.
