51视频

Kick Butt Social Commerce

We聽learn how an聽international speaker and聽author John Lawson got his start in聽e-commerce and聽what merchants should do聽now in聽social media.

Transcript

Jesse: What鈥檚 going on, Richard, are you ready for聽another show?

Richard: Oh, yeah, always, actually, I鈥檓 excited about this one.

Jesse: Yeah. Yeah, actually, you鈥檝e known this guest for聽a聽while now, I聽think what鈥檚 interesting is, we聽talk a聽lot about social media. We聽talk about Shoppable posts and聽things like that, but I聽wouldn鈥檛 say either one of聽us聽are experts in聽social media. We聽can talk about it聽a聽lot but I聽think every now and聽then we聽need to聽bring on聽an聽expert level to聽really give our guests something beyond 聯oh, post this tweet聰. We聽want to聽add more to聽our merchants and聽give you guys something to聽think about.

Richard: Definitely, and聽John, you鈥檒l be聽introduced properly here in聽a聽second. He鈥檚 been doing it聽for聽a聽while, I聽was one of聽some of聽the聽original sellers on聽eBay and聽I聽think John鈥檚 one of聽the聽few people that actually can say wasbefore me聽and聽back when PayPal was actually called X.聽I聽think we鈥檒l ask him when he聽comes on聽here. But I聽think he聽was even using it聽back then too. But yeah, a聽pioneer in聽the聽space. He鈥檚 been doing e-commerce for聽a聽while and聽then he鈥檚 kind of聽segued now into doing speaking and聽conferences and聽we聽saw him in聽at聽e-commerce conference not long ago where I聽said: 聯We got to聽get you on聽the聽show. You鈥檙e living it聽every day and聽teaching people that tips and聽tricks that are really happening right now.聰 Go聽ahead and聽give him a聽proper introduction.

Jesse: That鈥檚 the聽better intro than I聽was going to聽do. But we聽will bring on聽international keynote speaker and聽author John Lawson. How鈥檚 it聽going, John?

John: Whoo-hoo! (laughing)

Richard: All right, we聽don鈥檛 have the聽big conference lights and聽everything going on聽with the聽clickers and聽timers and聽all that.

John: Beyonce music, I聽get it. (laughing) What鈥檚 up, guys?

Jesse: Oh, it鈥檚 a聽good day. We聽gave you a聽pretty good intro there. I聽mean, let鈥檚 hope you can live up聽to聽that now. You鈥檝e been around a聽long time in聽e-commerce and聽online. The name of聽your book is聽聯Kick Ass Social Commerce for聽贰-笔谤别苍别耻谤蝉聪. I聽think that鈥檚 a聽great title. I聽mean, can we聽borrow that for聽podcasting?

John: Yeah, please do. All right.

Richard: We鈥檒l be聽stealing some of聽the聽link juice though.

John: The link juice! Go聽for聽it.

Richard: How about if聽you start with a聽brief history of聽what got you started and聽then where you鈥檙e at聽today and聽what you think people in聽the聽e-commerce space should be聽focusing on聽and聽we鈥檒l just roll with it聽because we聽know we鈥檙e with the聽trained professional here. We鈥檙e all good.

John: Yeah, I聽don鈥檛 tell the聽story all the聽time, it聽gets boring if聽you tell the聽same story year after year on聽stage. But the聽way I聽got started is聽I聽had a聽friend that came to聽me聽and聽said: 聯Hey, you should flip a聽house with me聰. And long story short, this is聽like 2001, and聽I聽ended up聽upside down with a聽second property that I聽couldn鈥檛 afford and聽we聽couldn鈥檛 get anybody to聽rent it. I聽couldn鈥檛 sell it. And I聽was about to聽go聽bankrupt and聽I聽was trying to聽find a聽way out of聽the聽bankruptcy. Somebody told me: 聯Well, you should sell your stuff on聽eBay聰. And I聽was like 聯Really? Even I聽can sell stuff?聰 I聽mean, I聽knew you could do聽like used socks or聽something but to聽sell stuff鈥 So聽I聽had a聽bunch of聽used books that I聽was hoarding in聽my聽basement. I鈥檇 already read them. I聽was in聽IT, so聽I聽had those big thick $30-$40聽IT聽books and聽once you read them, you don鈥檛 need them. So聽I聽started flipping those on聽eBay and聽it聽really was enough to聽keep the聽creditors at聽bay. It聽really got me聽into the聽fact that you can sell stuff online and聽that鈥檚 how I聽got into the聽whole e-commerce space. And 胁褖聽you remember Tickle Me聽Elmos? Back in聽2005. Those things were hard to聽get. And I聽had a聽lot of聽friends that worked in聽retail. So聽when they first hit the聽store shelves in聽like October. That鈥檚 when Christmas actually starts聽鈥 in聽early October. You can actually look to聽see what鈥檚 hot selling in聽the聽toys and聽then you could pretty much extrapolate that that鈥檚 going to聽be聽one of聽the聽hot toys by聽the聽time November-December rolls around. So聽once they sold out like hotcakes way early, I聽said you guys: 聯Hey, if聽you see any聽more Tickle Me聽Elmos, give me聽a聽call.聰 And I聽got a聽call one day and聽I聽drove around 285聽which is聽our Outer Loop in聽Atlanta. And I聽had a聽van full of聽Tickle Me聽Elmos and聽I聽held those bad boys until two weeks before Christmas and聽I聽was getting them off 10x of聽what I聽paid for. When you can turn a聽dollar in聽the聽$10聽over and聽over again, there鈥檚 a聽$35聽doll, I鈥檓 selling them for聽350. It聽was ridiculous. After that, I聽was hooked. I聽was in聽other people鈥檚 basements. I聽was everywhere. I聽couldn鈥檛 stop. And then I聽ended up聽stopping what I聽was doing on聽my聽regular job and聽went full time on聽e-commerce and聽haven鈥檛 really looked back.

Richard: Oh, that鈥檚 awesome. I聽did the聽same things early on聽with Beanie Babies and聽baseball cards and聽same type thing. You kind of聽wished: 聯Man, I聽wish it聽was December every month.聰

John: And I聽wish I聽knew that it聽wasn鈥檛 going to聽last forever. That鈥檚 what I聽wish I聽did.

Richard: Yeah, I聽lucked out, I聽don鈥檛 have a聽garage full of聽Beanie Babies still. I鈥檝e switched product, I聽saw that coming quick. Every fad runs out and聽you want to聽do聽something sustainable. So聽what got you out of聽e-commerce and聽more doing the聽social selling aspect of聽it聽now and聽what you actually teach people to聽do聽when you鈥檙e at聽conferences and聽speaking?

John: Well, you know what we聽were like, you said I聽was looking for聽repeatable. In聽fact, I聽was doing the聽arbitrage thing which is聽going around and聽trying to聽find a聽product that I聽could sell online and聽make some money. But I聽really wanted to聽and聽I聽recognized that we聽needed to聽do聽our own products. We聽needed to聽do聽some kind of聽branding and聽I聽tell people, they鈥檙e like: 聯Well, what鈥檚 a聽brand? It鈥檚 just your name.聰 I鈥檓 like: 聯No, but a聽brand is聽not your name. A聽brand is聽what people say about you when you鈥檙e not in聽a聽room. That鈥檚 your brand.聰 We聽wanted to聽build a聽brand and聽I聽started selling a聽lot of聽urban hip-hop gear. And one of聽the聽things we聽sold were bandanas. And I聽swear it聽was just annoying because I聽thought we聽were going to聽sell bandanas to聽the聽urban crowd that we聽already knew. But what happened was we聽put it聽online and聽it聽started going international. It聽started going into the聽areas of聽our country that they call the聽flyovers because these guys were really getting engaged at聽the聽time with the聽hip-hop community. And they didn鈥檛 know what to聽do聽with the聽bandana. So聽the聽number one question I聽used to聽get was how to聽fold a聽bandana like Tupac. And I鈥檓 like: 聯Really?聰 I聽got it聽so聽much that I聽made a聽YouTube video on聽how to聽do聽that and聽it聽was a聽garbage video. I聽literally did it聽just so聽I聽didn鈥檛 have to聽answer the聽question anymore. I聽can just point people to聽the聽video. Long story short that video went viral, we聽have over 350,000聽views of聽that video. I鈥檝e sold tens of聽thousands of聽bandanas back in聽the聽day and聽that was my聽claim to聽fame. So聽everybody was like, 聯How do聽you sell using YouTube?聰 which was really the聽origin of聽social media, it聽was YouTube.

Well, not really, I聽digress the聽actual beginning of聽social media was really AOL, but your audience is聽probably too young to聽remember that. But it聽was the聽same concept where you would literally join these chat boards and聽groups and聽you talk back and聽forth. And the聽first platform for聽social commerce was actually eBay because when you were waiting for聽the聽auction to聽end, people would have these chat boards and聽you would be聽talking about the聽products like they would talk about Beanie Babies. And you remember that was a聽very hot place to聽either find new Beanie Babies or聽to聽pick up聽some low-cost ones. All of聽that played into what people were asking me聽to聽talk about. And it聽was like early 2008-late 2008, somewhere around there and聽that鈥檚 kind of聽how I聽got into the聽social game.

Richard: Yeah, that鈥檚 awesome and聽the聽beauty to聽that when you created that video, it聽lives on聽and聽I聽don鈥檛 know if聽people really get that all the聽time, certain socials the聽life of聽that platform is聽a聽little different. I聽mean pitching the聽choir on聽this one, but the聽lifespan of聽a聽tweet is聽the聽shortest. But it鈥檚 very interesting because it鈥檚 the聽real what鈥檚 going on聽right now, live platform. I聽still when they debate with people back and聽forth like 聯Twitter going away.聰 It鈥檚 like 聯I聽don鈥檛 think it鈥檚 going away.聰 And when you compare it聽to聽the聽Behemoth of聽Facebook, it聽doesn鈥檛 look that big, but would you like to聽have 50聽million active users, I鈥檇 take it聽any聽day. But YouTube for聽sure lives on聽and聽I鈥檓 sure, I聽don鈥檛 know to聽the聽same extent, but you still probably get sales because of聽that video.

John: Well, I聽probably would but I聽don鈥檛 sell them anymore. But yes, I聽probably would, it鈥檚 still out there to聽help people. We聽still get residual money from watches and聽ads on.

Richard: Yes, and聽when VR聽happens again and聽Tupac鈥檚 doing concerts all new start over again (laughing).

John: Bam, and聽you just gave me聽an聽idea.

Jesse: The next platform coming, there鈥檚 probably a聽decent markup on聽a聽bandana.

John: Yeah, it聽was nice to聽call it聽God money, it聽could just fall out of聽the聽sky. I聽mean, it聽was just so聽good.
Richard: So聽there was something you said in聽the聽middle of聽that. I聽want to聽dive in聽a聽little deeper and聽it聽was about the聽brand and聽how you create a聽brand. How exactly to聽your point you get people to聽talk about you, what type of聽content would you recommend people? Let鈥檚 kind of聽segue that direction on聽what do聽you recommend when someone鈥檚 just getting started and聽there鈥檚 going to聽be聽various budget? Some people going to聽have more money. Some people going to聽have laughs, but just with the聽good old-fashioned phone. What do聽you think is聽a聽good way to聽get started for聽people on聽social and聽how they should communicate with their customers?

John: Yeah. I聽think that鈥檚 the聽key. It鈥檚 about communication with your customer. If聽you know what they need and聽you start providing it聽for聽them, they will talk about you. That鈥檚 really at聽the聽simplest level. The reason why Amazon is聽always talked about it鈥檚 not because Amazon has the聽greatest selection. It鈥檚 not because Amazon has the聽greatest prices. People think they might because they don鈥檛 search anywhere else. But the聽reason why people talk about Amazon and聽why Amazon is聽winning at聽this game is聽simply because of聽the聽service it聽provides. It聽is聽their service. That is聽the聽brand. I聽know if聽I聽order something on聽Amazon and聽I鈥檓 a聽Prime member, right, Prime is聽their service, I聽get it聽in聽two days and聽that鈥檚 why they鈥檙e winning the聽game. You have to聽create an聽experience for聽people that can鈥檛 be聽duplicated and聽add value to聽the聽product that you already give. Most of聽our products get made in聽some third world country, or聽China or聽something like that. Right? Most of聽us聽don鈥檛 make handmade, our own products. So聽what the聽deal is聽I聽can find whatever it聽is聽you鈥檙e selling, that somebody else can make by聽doing a聽great Google search and聽putting my聽name on聽that product. And I聽have a聽product, that鈥檚 like Kevin on聽Shark Tank always talks about. It鈥檚 like what makes you any聽different than anybody else? Well, you鈥檝e got to聽figure out how to聽add value to聽your product and聽a聽lot of聽times that is聽going to聽be聽the聽service that you provide. There was a聽company called Zappos that Amazon never could beat in聽shoes. Zappos would be聽kicking Amazon鈥檚 butt so聽much that Amazon ended up聽having to聽buy the聽company just so聽that they could compete on聽shoes and聽Zappos brought their customer support understanding to聽the聽Amazon world. Zappos was the聽ones that had unlimited, you could return shoes no聽matter when. And everybody鈥檚 like 聯Well, why would you do聽that?聰 Because look, I聽have something and聽I聽have to聽get it聽to聽you in聽14聽days. Your return policy is聽14聽days. Guess what for聽the聽first 13聽days all I鈥檓 going to聽remember is聽that I聽need to聽get that stuff back to聽these people. But when you tell me聽that you got six months, guess what, about a聽time five months goes by聽I鈥檓 not even thinking about that, right? So聽literally when we聽implemented some of聽that stuff when we聽extended our return policy, we聽got fewer returns, believe it聽or聽not, because at聽some point it鈥檚 not something that鈥檚 top of聽mind anymore. And then after a聽while, you just like 聯I聽have kept it聽as聽long, I鈥檓 just gonna keep it聰. But the聽deal is聽we聽were beating our competitors because the聽competitor had this strenuous 聯We don鈥檛 take any聽returns back or聽we聽only take it聽back in聽 seven days. And we鈥檙e sitting there going, we鈥檙e laughing because now people are recognizing our brand because of聽the聽experience that we聽were offering to聽that customer. You got to聽figure out how can your experience be聽better for聽customers because today price comparison is聽not going to聽win you the聽game. All that is聽is聽a聽big drain and聽you鈥檙e going to聽watch your profits go聽down the聽drain because somebody鈥檚 always going to聽come back and聽beat you on聽price at聽some point. You don鈥檛 want to聽compete on聽price. A聽brand is聽something that you can slap your name on聽it聽and聽actually charge more for聽the聽product. That鈥檚 a聽real brain. If聽you can鈥檛 charge more for聽a聽product because of聽your brand name, you don鈥檛 have a聽brand, you have a聽label.

Richard: Yeah, it鈥檚 so聽interesting, you say that it鈥檚 almost like we鈥檙e thinking about this or聽talked about it聽ahead of聽time. The price game, the聽commodity-based sale is聽definitely losing a聽battle. And you鈥檙e going to聽lose to聽that company you just described because of聽Amazon, they understand it鈥檚 that customer experience. Right? I聽mean if聽we聽think Costco hit a聽home run with Kirkland, wait till we聽see what Amazon does with Basics, right? It鈥檚 going to聽put that to聽shame if聽it鈥檚 just because they got all the聽data too but you have to聽do聽a聽brand. It鈥檚 kind of聽counterintuitive as聽I聽listen to聽you talk about it聽where it鈥檚 like you extend the聽return policy, you鈥檇 think: 聭Oh my聽gosh, that鈥檚 going to聽make it聽worse聮. But it聽makes it聽better because it鈥檚 this customer experience you鈥檙e talking about it. We聽live in聽a聽day and聽age鈥 you used to聽have to聽drive a聽long way to聽go聽to聽a聽competitor. And now you can be聽inside of聽a聽Macy鈥檚, they piss you off and聽you can buy from Nordstrom on聽their Wi-Fi. So聽it鈥檚 all about customer experience and聽giving them that best experience is聽what鈥檚 going to聽make them stick with you. They literally can change to聽somebody right there. Pull out their phone and聽buy it聽from someone else when you piss him off. But even with the聽information marketers have out there because we聽know a聽bunch of聽those people, not just products. They give away their best stuff and聽you literally have probably giving millions and聽millions of聽dollars worth of聽information to聽people but people will still pay to聽have you come say it聽one more time because it鈥檚 that important.

John: They know there鈥檚 something deeper. They just feel like there鈥檚 something deeper. 聭What is聽it? You鈥檙e not telling me, John.聮 (laughing) Yeah. I聽just told you, told you: you want to聽build a聽brand聽鈥 do聽what I聽just said. So聽what has to聽be聽more?

Richard: What would you recommend? Let鈥檚 make a聽scenario up. It聽was a聽pretty good tip of聽the聽iceberg there with the聽how to聽fold a聽bandana. Do聽you think you should make these videos about most frequently asked questions or聽what鈥檚 a聽good starting point for聽someone?

John: That is聽the聽starting point. Find 10聽things that are your most frequently asked questions and聽make 10聽videos on聽it. And the聽key is聽you want to聽name the聽video how the聽question is聽asked. Alright, not how you ask the聽question, not how you think a聽question would be聽at, but exactly how your customer keeps asking you to聽question. In聽my聽case, it聽was how to聽fold a聽bandana like Tupac. Guess what my聽video is聽called, 聭How to聽fold a聽bandana like Tupac聮, right? That鈥檚 because that鈥檚 what people are searching for. Especially in聽this new era. See we聽don鈥檛 understand what鈥檚 about to聽happen. What鈥檚 about to聽happen with voice commerce, see, because when you had the聽desktop, it聽was great. You could type in聽something and聽you鈥檒l get a聽hundred different results. But if聽I聽ask for聽toilet paper to聽Alexa or聽to聽Google home, I聽don鈥檛 want a聽hundred results. I聽want one result and聽what that means is聽that the聽ability to聽do聽a聽selection of聽product is聽going away. And it鈥檚 only going to聽be聽the聽one product because nobody wants a聽whole bunch of聽options. They just want what they want. What is聽really going to聽be聽coming so聽important in聽this new voice Commerce era, you鈥檙e going to聽have to聽get the聽people to聽ask for聽your product by聽name. Because selection is聽really going away. It鈥檚 amazing what鈥檚 about to聽happen.

Jesse: Yeah, that鈥檚 it. I聽love that advice there because, of聽course, a聽brand is聽important but how does it聽really relate to聽what鈥檚 going to聽happen in聽the聽next couple years? Voice is聽the聽perfect explanation for聽that, because yeah, I聽get it聽if聽you say 聭I聽want a聽bandana聮, you鈥檙e going to聽get the聽top option from Amazon. If聽you鈥檙e on聽Alexa from Google, it鈥檚 going to聽be聽probably something to聽Walmart or聽Target. But if聽you say 聭I聽want a聽bandana made by聽such and聽such brand.聮 Now they鈥檙e going to聽lead you to聽that particular website. But otherwise, you鈥檙e going to聽be聽buried, number two is聽nowhere. There鈥檚 no聽number two.

John: Realistically, even on聽Google or聽Amazon right now the聽number one result gets more than 60% of聽all the聽buys. Just think about that, the聽number two gets 25%. And all the聽rest of聽them are fighting for聽what is聽that, eight? 12-15%? 15, somewhere around there. So聽you need to聽be聽top of聽mind. You鈥檝e got to聽be聽top of聽mind. Brand building is聽something, it鈥檚 one of聽the聽things that people do聽not understand. It鈥檚 an聽ongoing and聽a聽long play, you鈥檙e not going to聽build a聽brand overnight. That鈥檚 something you do聽while you鈥檙e selling.

Richard: So聽do聽you recommend people start on聽one platform or聽start on聽a聽platform where their customers are or聽how do聽you feel about that?

John: You want to聽start where your customers are. Absolutely, and聽the聽thing is聽and聽where they鈥檙e buying. I聽mean our customers, yes, are on聽Facebook, but are they buying on聽Facebook? Maybe not? Probably not, but maybe they鈥檙e buying on聽Pinterest. I聽don鈥檛 know. So聽should we聽talk about just social platforms right there, right? So聽you want to聽find out where they鈥檙e hanging out in聽social. The other place you want to聽go聽to聽of聽course or聽possibly marketplaces if聽that鈥檚 something you鈥檙e into trying. Then go聽for聽it, be聽on聽Amazon or聽Ebay or聽an聽Etsy. Those places are pretty good for聽getting started, definitely good for聽brand building, right? I聽think if聽you鈥檙e just getting started, what you really want to聽do聽is聽focus in聽on聽one or聽two platforms because multiplication by聽zero will get you zero. So聽many people are like: 聭Look, if聽I聽could just put it聽onto more channels.聮 No, figure out how to聽sell it聽on聽the聽channel you鈥檙e on聽first. Like what did you say, three-point something billion people on聽Twitter or聽whatever. And then everybody acts like they want the聽hundred and聽fifty billion on聽Facebook as聽if聽that 3聽billion is聽just too small for聽you. Really? Come on! Figure that out first and聽then let鈥檚 multiply what鈥檚 working on聽that platform to聽other platforms. There鈥檚 so聽much garbage around us聽that we聽always think the聽next platform is聽going to聽do聽with, the聽shiny object syndrome kills our ability to聽really focus. Focus is聽where the聽money is. Dig deep.

Jesse: I聽think that鈥檚 great. Of聽course, we鈥檙e in聽the聽business, we聽know all sorts of聽stuff. We聽actually give our customers all sorts of聽advice on聽this podcast. But I聽think the聽better advice is聽yeah, there鈥檚 a聽lot of聽things you can do, but pick one or聽two that you really like, that your customers are really on. If聽you think all your customers are on聽Pinterest because maybe it鈥檚 a聽little crafty or聽it鈥檚 a聽food thing. And you鈥檙e not on聽Pinterest, maybe that鈥檚 the聽one you want to聽focus in聽and聽learn. But if聽you鈥檙e selling to聽younger people, you might have to聽learn Instagram. I聽mean Instagram is聽probably a聽good stock answer.

John: It聽is聽a聽good stock answer for聽younger people. They are like 补苍迟颈-鈥

Jesse: Yeah, the聽anti-Facebook owned by聽Facebook.

John: I聽know. 聭I鈥檓 quitting Facebook. I鈥檓 going to聽Instagram.聮 That鈥檚 not working.

Jesse: Yeah, you really showed Mark Zuckerberg there. (laughing)

John: There鈥檚 Sally, and聽I鈥檓 gonna date May, even though she鈥檚 Sally. (laughing)

Jesse: Yeah. I聽always get a聽kick out of聽that one too. People are gonna switch to聽another platform. 聭I鈥檓 on聽Facebook, Twitter, now Instagram.聮 So聽they start out, they get any聽brand. We聽get a聽lot of聽beginners that are listening to聽the聽show and聽maybe they haven鈥檛 made that many sales. Maybe they鈥檝e made 50聽sales, a聽hundred sales total and聽so. They might not really know the聽platform where people are hanging out. They popped up聽a聽site, got some sales doing some ads, maybe testing the聽waters with a聽bunch of聽social media. How can they hone in? What鈥檚 the聽hot tip here? We聽can give them to聽pick that platform. I聽mean, I聽know it鈥檚 not easy鈥

John: They want to聽start looking for聽groups. You want to聽start looking for聽groups like on聽Facebook. Even if聽you go聽back to聽the聽old school forums, and聽find out where people are talking about that vertical of聽products you sell. So聽let鈥檚 say, you sell women鈥檚 apparel. I鈥檓 sure there鈥檚 a聽lot of聽places where people talk about women鈥檚 apparel, let鈥檚 say blouses. All right. Well, that鈥檚 fine what they鈥檙e saying about the聽frustration of聽purchasing blouses. And find out what they are talking about, how they鈥檙e talking about it, what they like, what they don鈥檛 like. The first thing you want to聽do聽is聽start listening to聽the聽conversation because there鈥檚 gold in聽listening to聽the聽conversation. Another place that I聽kind of聽like doing some detailed research is聽actually on聽Amazon. So聽if聽you鈥檝e got a聽product that is聽similar to聽the聽Amazon product, you go聽out and聽look and聽see what people are saying in聽the聽comments and聽you don鈥檛 really want鈥 I聽mean the聽good comments are great, everybody鈥檚 loving it. Find out the聽one star, start reading the聽one-two star ones and聽that鈥檚 going to聽give you is聽detailed information on聽how you can differentiate from other people鈥檚 products. If聽they鈥檙e saying they hate this part, they don鈥檛 like this part, 聭I聽wish you鈥檇 had鈥β Those are things that you can implement and聽put into your products and聽into your product descriptions so聽that it鈥檚 answering to聽the聽frustration that people are already talking about. And then, of聽course, you start if聽you鈥檙e the聽expert on鈥 I鈥檓 the聽expert of聽folding bandanas, so聽I聽find places where people are talking about how to聽fold bandanas. Oh, I鈥檒l give you another, just let鈥檚 run with this example. So聽again, I聽think everybody鈥檚 wanting to聽do聽the聽Tupac thing. I聽didn鈥檛 realize that bikers use bandanas all the聽time until I聽started listening to聽the聽chatter out in聽the聽world. So聽it鈥檚 like, okay now I聽got wording that I聽can use, so聽bikers will be聽attracted to聽our bandanas when they鈥檙e doing their searches. I聽got words for聽skaters that use bandanas and聽how they explain, what they do聽in聽a聽bandana and聽why they wear it聽in聽their pocket or聽this, that and聽the聽third. You just out there. There鈥檚 so聽much content that we聽miss because we鈥檙e always trying to聽push, push, push. Yes, but if聽you just listen, you start being able to聽create content that pulls for聽you.

Jesse: Got it. No, that鈥檚 great advice. I聽think you created this, you had this idea. Maybe you didn鈥檛 think it聽was your best idea but it聽took off like wildfire and聽now just by聽listening to聽other people, listening to聽the聽comments coming in, you鈥檙e able to聽create other content That was a聽few years ago, you were creating YouTube videos at聽that time. Is聽that what you would still do? If聽you鈥檙e in聽that business would be聽doing YouTube videos first or聽would you be聽thinking elsewhere?

John: You know what, I聽probably would not necessarily be聽doing YouTube videos, but if聽I聽found out that yes, this is聽the聽issue and聽it聽needs to聽be聽demonstrated. There鈥檚 nothing better to聽demonstrating something than using a聽YouTube video, right? Okay, or聽a聽Facebook video. And I聽do聽say there鈥檚 a聽difference. It鈥檚 the聽same video, you just upload it聽to聽the聽native platform these days. Create a聽YouTube video and聽then put a聽link on聽to聽something聽鈥 that just doesn鈥檛 work anymore. Those guys are competing with each other for聽traffic and聽they will deprecate how many people see your link based on聽that. So聽yes, I聽think videos fantastic for聽doing what you do. I聽don鈥檛 think I聽even said that those 10聽videos that I聽told you, make ten separate videos, not the聽top ten questions. You make ten separate videos nice and聽short, three to聽five minutes at聽best. You should be聽able to聽explain something. I聽do聽still like video, I聽think videos still on聽the聽rise and聽it鈥檚 growing. Now let鈥檚 say you have some other stuff once you do聽the聽video. What I聽like about videos you can repurpose. I聽can extract the聽audio and聽now I鈥檝e got an聽MP3聽file. I聽can take that MP3聽file upload it聽to聽Rev, and聽that鈥檚 Rev.com. I鈥檓 not doing a聽commercial here, but that鈥檚 where you can take audio and聽it聽turns it聽into text. And now you鈥檝e got a聽blog post that you can put out there. So聽when people do聽the聽search, they鈥檒l see your video. They might see you talking through the聽audio parts and聽now you鈥檝e got an聽actual blog post to聽go聽with it. I聽take that blog post. I聽put it聽on聽my聽site. I聽take that blog post. I聽put it聽on聽Mention. I鈥檝e given all of聽these is聽credible links that go聽back to聽your store. Right. Now when Google looks at聽your store, they鈥檙e seeing you got links coming from all of聽these social channels, which they ranked highly and聽the聽more of聽those you have, the聽greater your chance you have of聽being found.

Jesse: That鈥檚 great.

John: Just it鈥檚 a聽game. It鈥檚 a聽game. You just got to聽play the聽game.

Richard: Yeah, and聽it鈥檚 to聽your point where, yes, you want to聽make 10聽different videos but it鈥檚 more important to聽actually make sure you鈥檙e putting those in聽the聽right places and聽you鈥檙e playing the聽game. Because to聽your point earlier about brand, you鈥檙e seeing even in聽Google search results they鈥檙e heavily favoring brands. Because probably that same reason. Everyone鈥檚 fighting for聽that same customer experience and聽they will no聽matter what platform they鈥檙e on, they鈥檙e trying to聽protect their customers. Some do聽it聽better than others, some don鈥檛 do聽it聽so聽well. But that鈥檚 what they鈥檙e really trying to聽do. They want to鈥hy you say upload it聽natively, they want you to聽stay on聽their playground. If聽you鈥檙e Google, they want you to聽stay on聽their playground. If聽you鈥檙e Facebook, they want to聽stay on聽that playground. So聽you really listen to聽John there, in聽that you want to聽find out first and聽foremost what the聽questions are being asked. Use our mouth and聽our ears in聽proportion to聽what we鈥檝e been blessed with two to聽one at聽least. Mostly I鈥檇 probably say it鈥檚 even a聽little higher than that. But listen and聽then create content the聽way your customers are searching for聽it. Name it聽the聽way they鈥檙e searching for聽it聽and聽then put that in聽the聽places where they鈥檙e at. But it聽all starts with what do聽you stand for, what are you making and聽then finding those groups and聽listening to聽what they鈥檙e saying.

John: I聽love that. I聽love the聽聭what do聽you stand for.聮 People love that store. You got to聽stand for聽something. And that鈥檚 part of聽a聽brand like Patagonia. That鈥檚 part of聽their brand. It鈥檚 what they stand for聽and聽people use that stuff because they are outdoor enthusiast as聽well that loves to聽protect nature. Bam. Now you get it. I聽see these two guys on聽TV聽right now right that are cleaning up聽the聽ocean. You鈥檝e seen this commercial?

Richard: No, not yet.

John: You haven鈥檛 seen this commercial. It聽is聽these two surfer guys that were just in聽Bali and聽stuff was washing up聽on聽the聽beach, just because where Bali is聽located a聽lot of聽plastics were just on聽the聽beach. And they just started a聽charitable organization where they were going to聽just start cleaning up聽the聽beaches literally in聽the聽last I聽think maybe three years. This company has taken off right even though it鈥檚 a聽non-profit and聽it鈥檚 a聽charitable organization. Just the聽amount of聽press they鈥檙e getting and聽things like that is聽because they have a聽cause behind it. Cause marketing is聽a聽real thing. It鈥檚 a聽real thing. And if聽you鈥檝e got a聽story behind that, that becomes another reason why people stick and聽stay with you. There鈥檚 a聽stock business, every time you buy their pair of聽socks, they gave a聽pair of聽socks to聽people in聽need. Those kind of聽stories generate natural press that generates buzz naturally and聽people start talking about it聽because they want to聽be聽a聽part of聽the聽cause. We聽want to聽feel like our random consumption but it鈥檚 like 聭At least I鈥檓 buying socks for聽another person.聮 You know there鈥檚 a聽shoe company that does the聽same thing. So聽I聽mean that鈥檚 another way to聽get in聽front. Another thing you want to聽think about. After all we鈥檙e doing all this. You guys already have customers. If聽you just got a聽few customers, then look you need to聽talk to聽those customers and聽see if聽they will leave you some testimony, if聽you can get it聽on聽video. That would be聽fantastic. Matter of聽fact, I鈥檝e only sold three of聽these things. But if聽I聽give you that product for聽free, would you make a聽video if聽you like it? They鈥檒l probably say: 聭Yeah聮, and聽I鈥檒l get that video. Now I聽get to聽take that video and聽start putting it聽all around places and聽a聽testimonial from somebody else is聽worth a聽thousand times more than you talking about your own self.

Jesse: Yeah, that鈥檚 great. And I聽think something you鈥檝e mentioned several times now is聽video, it鈥檚 kind of聽coming back to聽video here several different places. That is聽the聽new medium.

John: What鈥檚 the聽old saying? 聭A聽picture is聽worth a聽thousand words.聮 A聽thousand. I聽think today it鈥檚 worth ten thousand. Yeah. So聽video鈥檚 not going anywhere. Our kids are not getting smaller people. They鈥檙e not. And our video is聽in聽our hand now. When you鈥檙e seeing people they鈥檙e watching something. The amount of聽time people consume just watching crap is聽amazing to聽me.

Jesse: Yeah. Why not be聽part of聽that crap? (laughing)

John: We聽might be聽part of聽that crap on聽these. But the聽other thing is聽too, I聽can鈥檛 remember, I聽saw a聽study there and聽they say how much time actually gets wasted from watching videos in聽stream. Because if聽you just think about it, you go聽and聽you鈥檙e going through your stream and聽then a聽video starts playing and聽you give it聽30聽seconds. Well, you know you do聽that 10-20聽times a聽day. That鈥檚 time you were not planning on聽wasting on聽watching videos. That鈥檚 how engaging videos are.

Jesse: Yeah, it鈥檚 crazy. I聽was listening to聽a聽podcast on聽the聽way in聽today and聽they were talking specifically about Instagram Stories. Instagram Stories didn鈥檛 even exist two years ago and聽now that鈥檚 the聽dominant way that people are consuming video on聽their phone and聽it鈥檚 just short little videos.

John: Years ago they recall Snapchat.

Jesse: Yeah, then Instagram stole it聽and聽did it. It鈥檚 video and聽it鈥檚 super short and聽people get it. They take it聽by聽just picking up聽their phone and聽pushing that button.

John: So聽it鈥檚 just telling a聽story. 聭This is聽my聽day聮. And I聽mean it鈥檚 so聽simple. And what I聽was reading something where Facebook Stories are taking off to聽Facebook. Given that more footprint in聽your timeline as聽well. So聽these are all things that you could do聽so聽simply. You can tell the聽story of聽how you guys started a聽business. You can show how you do聽your packing and聽shipping. You can talk about how much you love your customers. You can do聽videos on聽all kind of聽stuff. I聽get it, a聽lot of聽people won鈥檛 watch it聽but the聽few that do聽could be聽the聽ones that you sell to.

Jesse: Yeah, that鈥檚 perfect. I聽know we鈥檝e been kind of聽pounding the聽table on聽this one a聽little bit too, so聽I鈥檓 glad that somebody else is聽telling our customers: 聭Yeah, you have to聽make a聽video.聮 Social media is聽not just sending out tweets and聽typing things on聽Facebook. It鈥檚 a聽video, it鈥檚 just video.

John: Yeah. And the聽best videos are not the聽well-produced ones. Just think about the聽last time you saw a聽viral video and聽tell me, was it聽in聽a聽studio with ten thousand dollar cameras and聽multi-angle shots? No.

Jesse:It鈥檚 probably a聽selfie.

Richard: It鈥檚 kind of. I鈥檝e noticed it鈥檚 at聽the聽polar extremes. It鈥檚 either the聽cell phone like to聽your point, or聽it鈥檚 the聽Harmon brothers with Squatty Potty or聽something. To聽your point, because I聽don鈥檛 want to聽derail them, highly produced videos still can really do聽the聽trick. I聽mean they鈥檝e done a聽bunch of聽really good ones as聽you know. I鈥檓 sure you鈥檝e spoken at聽some of聽the聽conferences where they鈥檝e talked about it. But 聭don鈥檛 let that stop you聮 is聽really your point. You don鈥檛 have to聽make it聽highly produced, these people are trying to聽run a聽business. You need to聽think back again if聽we聽kind of聽recap on聽what you鈥檝e said. Listen to聽the聽audience of聽who you鈥檙e trying to聽sell to. They鈥檙e going to聽tell you, what they want and聽then you create content and聽you literally鈥 we鈥檙e seeing videos super important but you also said audio. You also talked about voice and聽you talked about transcribing that into a聽blog post. These are things you can do. One thing and聽get a聽lot of聽use out of聽that one thing. And then you get really good at聽that one place but then you also put it聽in聽other places. So聽what we鈥檙e really trying to聽get across to聽the聽people here that are listening is聽you got to聽start somewhere. And the聽best place to聽start is聽listening to聽what people are asking for. Then give them what a聽concept, give them what they鈥檙e asking for聽and聽they鈥檒l start to聽talk about you. The beauty of聽a聽brand too, that we聽didn鈥檛 really get into but I鈥檓 sure you would attest to, is聽when you get loyal fans you almost don鈥檛 have to聽worry about the聽troll hate chatter on聽social because your customers will jump in聽and聽protect you faster than you can even get on.

John: Absolutely. Because you get brand fans and聽brand fans are your best defenders.

Jesse: Yeah, I聽know. I聽love it聽and聽I鈥檝e seen it. I鈥檝e seen it聽in聽action as聽well. It鈥檚 great because the聽social media, you do聽have to聽be聽on聽it. You can鈥檛 let people fill up聽these feeds with a聽bunch of聽crap. You get off to聽fight it聽but when your customers start fighting back for聽you. Oh聽man, then you鈥檙e starting to聽win. It聽takes a聽while but you鈥檙e starting to聽get there.

John: It聽starts with it. Let鈥檚 just say one thing about the聽Squatty Potty video. I聽get it. But more than anything it聽had a聽story. The video was actually crappy compared to聽a聽real highly polished video. It聽can鈥檛 be. Happiness comes from the聽craziness of聽this video. But it聽had a聽great story. Can you imagine somebody sitting there is聽like 聭Yeah, we鈥檙e gonna lick a聽lollipop or聽a聽cone full of聽unicorn poop. Yeah, that鈥檚 funny as聽hell!聮 But you never know if聽that鈥檚 going to聽play out. You never know. I聽remember Dollar Shave Club, that one to聽me聽was like 聭Oh my聽God, I聽love this video.聮 But I聽don鈥檛 think they could have thought that it聽was going to聽be聽that big. Nobody can really just tell you what a聽customer or聽the聽public is聽going to聽gravitate towards. Because at聽the聽same time Squatty Potty did what it鈥檚 doing. You鈥檝e got the聽kid in聽the聽back seat that鈥檚 just got his teeth pulled and聽he鈥檚 still all loopy and聽that thing has got ten times more than a聽Squatty Potty video. You just never know what鈥檚 going to聽catch on. And I聽don鈥檛 know how many people have tried to聽make this Squatty Potty video. Quite successful, right?

Richard: Yeah. It鈥檚 a聽good point there. It鈥檚 all in聽the聽story. That鈥檚 one. And then two, just back to聽your dollar shave club. Did you see what Dollar Beard Club did with that too? They鈥檙e basically鈥

John: I聽got to聽go聽look now.

Richard: Oh, it鈥檚 hilarious. You鈥檒l love it. They literally basically completely make fun of聽it. Look it聽up. You鈥檙e going to聽love it. But it鈥檚 the聽same thing. 聭And what do聽we聽do, 产濒补丑-产濒补丑-产濒补丑?聮 And he鈥檚 like slaps the聽guy who鈥檚 got shaving cream: 聭We sure the聽heck don鈥檛 blah.聮 But you know I聽can鈥檛 I聽don鈥檛 want to聽curse on聽it. You鈥檙e going to聽love the聽video. It鈥檚 hilarious. But so聽it鈥檚 a聽little bit of聽you got to聽be聽yourself, but you can learn from what other people have done so聽it鈥檚 not like you go聽out there and聽implement what they鈥檝e done. You still have to聽keep your story. But when you see the聽success, it聽does leave clues that you can learn from. Doesn鈥檛 mean exactly but it聽definitely clues you can learn from.

John: Absolutely.

Jesse: Yeah. I聽think for聽listeners here, hopefully, you guys have picked up聽some of聽those tips. If聽you鈥檙e you listen to聽us聽again and聽take some notes because there is聽a聽blueprint here inside this podcast for聽you to聽test things out and聽start to聽build your own success. John, I聽really appreciate you being on聽the聽show here either. Any last places where we聽can find out more about you?

John: JohnLawson.com, my聽name dot com.

Jesse: Awesome.

Richard: Thanks again, John.

About The Author
Kristen is a 褋ontent creator at 51视频. She finds inspiration in sci-fi books, jazz music, and home-cooked food.

Start selling on your website